LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

datsunboy
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LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby datsunboy » Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:27 pm

This article, will tell you all you need to know about installing a LSD into your 1600 (P510).

*Please Ask any questions or comments, so that I can add them to this article. I Will add pics later

A few terms:
VLSD - Viscous Limited Slip Differential
CLSD - Clutch Limited Slip Differential
longnose - the earlier style R200 diffs. these look the same as a R160 or R180
shortnose - the later style R200 ( ie Silvia and skyline ). thses are much shorter in length.

your Options:
R160 LSD
1. early Subaru R160 LSD
R180 LSD
2. find a RARE factory nissan longnose R180 CLSD
3. Fit a Subaru R180 Viscous LSD.
R200 LSD
4. early 280ZX style "longnose" R200 CLSD
5. get a longnose R200 case, and install a shortnose R200 LSD centre.
6. customise your x-member to fit a complete R200 shortnose LSD
aftermarket LSD
7. there are quite a few LSD options out there in the aftermarket world, that will give you bolt in replacement LSD centres for whatever Size diff you want. ( R160, R180, R200 ). These are very nice diffs, much better than stock Nissan ones, but they cost a arm and a leg.

Option 1
Get a R160 LSD from a early subaru, unbolt the "Torx" bolts that are down the centre of the output splines.
bolt in your standard 1600 output shafts, then bolt the diff back in as if it was a factory 1600 one!
EASY!



Option 5
The R200 diff is a massive bastard to say the least, and to fit one under your 510 will require a few mods.

there are 2 types of longnose R200s
- the early ones with 10mm bolts ( centre nugget to crownwheel )
- the later ones with 12mm bolts ( centre nugget to crownwheel )

the preferable type to get, is the later, as the shortnose R200 also has 12mm bolts. ( not sure what later model longnose R200's came in, but I got one from a A31 cefiro ).

The important thing to remeber here, is to get the ratio of "longnose R200" diff that you want in the end, as you will be using the crownwheel and pinion from this diff.

You now need to find a shortnose R200 LSD.
from this diff, you will need the LSD centre nugget, AND the output shafts/flanges. And if you can, grab the CV axles and drive shaft aswell.

early 10mm bolt diff
pull both diffs to bits.
you will now need to make some spacers/shims to take account for the larger bolt holes of the shortnose.
you will see exactly what is needed when you go to do it.
once you have the shims made, install them, and bolt your new LSD centre to the longnose crownwheel
install the nugget back into the bearing carriers, and reassemble the diff!

later 12mm bolt diff
pull both diffs to bits.
get the LSD centre from the shortnose, and bolt it to the longnose crownwheel.
install the nugget back into the bearing carriers, and reassemble the diff!
As simple as that.

The shortnose R200 rear cover also fits the longnose case, and holds more oil, and looks awesome too!

now you should have a custom R200 LSD sitting in front of you, and your ready to fitt it to your 510.


Installing your new diff
take out your old diff and axles ( obviously )
drop your rear x-member
and start trying to fit the diff in the x-member, you will now see that it wont fit. The bottom of the diff will be hitting on the x-member lip.
Cut out a section of the x-member so that the R200 will fitt in and bolt up.
Once you have the diff bolted to your x-member, fit it back into your car ( its now DAMN heavy ).
Start jacking the diff up, untill it hits the chassis just forward of the tyre well. mark out where you need to cut, lower the diff back down, and cut a section out of the chassis ( this is not the structural chassis, so its ok. you need to do this so the diff can sit high enough ).
you now need to modify the rear mostache bar, as the R200 is much bigger than the R160.
The easiest way, is to cut the standard 1600 mostache bar up. Chop both ends off ( the ends with the rubber mounts ) right near the bit where it flattens out.
get a piece of steel bar, and drill 2 holes in it for the rear mounting studs of the diff ( the longnose and shortnose spacing is different, so check first ).
bolt all 3 pieces up, then jack the diff back up, and tack weld the centre section to the 2 end bits you cut off the 1600 bar.
Pull it back out ( yet again ), and weld fully, and clean it all up.
now you can bolt the diff in completely, never to have to be taken out again!

now comes the part of making the driveline work.

Connecting the gearbox to the Diff
not sure if its all R200's, or just the later longnose ones, but my A31 R200 longnose, has a bigger yoke, with bigger bolts, that connect the driveshaft to the diff.
so you will need to get a new yoke welded and balanced to your existing driveshaft.

one thing to consider:
when I got mine done, the dude at the shop said that my driveshaft ( std 1600 ), was pussy, and I should put a bigger one in.
He reccommended to me to use a 2WD Navara driveshaft as they are much stronger, and thats what all the drift cars use.

Connecting wheels to the Diff
you could try someway of making an adapter to fit your std 1600 halfshafts, but really, whats the point? you now have a strong as hell diff, so why not go a bit more, and convert to CV rear end!

Converting a 1600 to CV rear end
Ok, so you have your R200 VLSD bolted up and ready ( along with whatever output shafts and CV axles that it came with ), so now you just need to somehow connect them to the 1600 hubs.

First thing to do, is to swap the 1600 4-bolt uni champion flange, for a 6-bolt CV champion flange.
You can find these flanges on R30 and R31 skylines
you could also get a 4-bolt CV champion flange from a turbo 280ZX or turbo Z31 ( tho I would not recommend these, as they are very hard to find. I looked around all the CV shops in chch, and no-one had a listing for new items, Nissan didnt even believe me that they had CV's! )

The 6-bolt ones are much easier to find, and get parts for.
When you get your champion flanges, get the CV axles with them.

so, undo that BIG ass nut on the 1600 trailing arm that holds the wheel bearings in, and pull the champion flange off. ( now would be a GREAT time to get rid of the drum brakes and convert to disc, and also install new wheel bearings ).

Now all you have to do, is bolt the new champion flange back on, do that nut back up ( as per the service manual ), and flatten the nut lip.

now, install everything back into the car, and you should be at a stage where all you have left to do is make the custom CV axles.

The way I had my shafts done ( and the better way in my opinion ), was to keep one end of the standard Nissan axle as factory, and then chop the other end off ( to the length you require ), and take it in to get machined.
You will need to get a new Spline CNC machined onto your shaft at the correct location.
After my shafts were machined, we hardness tested both ends ( the machined end, and the stock end ) and they came out very close to each other, so no further heat treating was needed.

To determine the length of your CV axles, you will need to do some testing.
take your springs out, leave your shocks in, and bolt everything in place.
now, with a jack, take the suspension up and down through its entire travel ( with shocks inplace ). You should notice, that the length won't change much at all, just the angle at which it operates.
now get it to the point where the 2 CV joints ( inner and outer ), are at the closet to each other.
Now do some measuring, and figure it out.
You want the CV joints to be in the centre of the travel of each CV. so that it has room to move in both directions.

to confirm this, I did a rough CAD drawing in Inventor to simulate it, to make sure the axle length I chose was not going to bottom out at any stage.

Going on my setup, which uses the R30 skyline outer CV's and champion flanges, I ended up using a 255mm shaft ( between centres of joints, not total length ) on BOTH sides.
Please use this as a guide ONLY, and check you own measurements well.

Install your CV axles ( without boots or springs ), and again, go through the suspension travel once more for a last minute check.
Now, install your CV boots and grease, bolt them in, drop the car on the ground, and go give you new diff a good punishing! ( remember to fill it with oil first!....haha )
1969 SSS Nissan Bluebird coupe
1970 Datsun 1600 - CA18DET - Sold!

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby brocky41 » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:23 am

Really cool post, will need this for doing the 180b.

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby Godzilladat » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:30 am

Hey Dan, did you want to add the S15 helical centres out of the manual models. They are a good option. You do need the S15 inputs, but I believe they all come with the 6 bolt output flanges (the splines are different to S13/14 etc).

The 6 bolt flanges should bolt to all other model (s13, s14) 6 bolt cv cups.

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby illusive » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:36 pm

RS legacy r160 vlsd diffs have the circlip type output flanges and dont work
Unless somebody has away around this?

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby datsunboy » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:32 am

people have done those before.....you will have to modify/make some output shafts.
you could either convert the rear to CV axles, just like in Option 5......or you could modify your Datsun output shafts and cut a circlip grove into them.....(fj180b - Sam has done this before.....but dont think hes signed up to this forum yet)
1969 SSS Nissan Bluebird coupe
1970 Datsun 1600 - CA18DET - Sold!

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby Datto_610 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:09 pm

I will be making my 180B CV rear end using a R180 VLSD with a combination of Legacy and R30 skyline axles, when its all made ill post up what i did.

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby unlimitedpower » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:07 pm

Hey dan just a point to note.
The shaft length you said you used is incorrect.
Its actually 255mm Center to Center of CV joint. (not 355mm as you stated) Theres so much movement in a CV joint and so little length change in a datsun setup that anything from 245-265mm will be fine. But 255mm sets the CV bearings in the center of the joint.
I confirmed your measurements with John and they matched mine.
I will take some detailed photos of verious stages of the diff set ups ive done and send them to you so you can add them to your write up and making it a very very helpful guide to people.

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby datsunboy » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:33 pm

whatever length I got John to make mine at is the measurement that I came up with, it was ages ago now.....maybe I miss typed it lol.
I'll check with the guy who owns my old car now and see what they are.
yeah take pics if you like man.
I have some CAD drawings somewhere I might dig up to add to the article too
1969 SSS Nissan Bluebird coupe
1970 Datsun 1600 - CA18DET - Sold!

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby unlimitedpower » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:31 pm

No problem.
The over all lenght of the axles between the 2 flanges are about 355mm maybe thats where the confusing came from.
Im photographing most stuff i do to doa write up later on, As alot of the the rear end mods im doing i can find very very little info on.

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Re: LSD options for your P510 1600 (or similar datsun)

Postby 510_nz » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:33 pm

What year subaru am I looking for if I'm after the R160?


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